Christian Toto | Hollywood's good, bad, and ugly woke

Christian Toto is an award-entertainment journalist with more than a decade of experience, a contributor at the Daily Wire, and the founder of HollywoodInToto.com, a site that covers pop culture from a conservative perspective.

He joined Ken on the podcast to talk about politics and wokeness in the movie industry and answer the question: "Do unbiased movie reviews still exist?"

To find Ken in the social world, click: https://linktr.ee/KenLaCorte

Transcript

Ken LaCorte: 0:00

I had a good chat with Kristen Toto. He's a movie reviewer who runs Hollywood in Toto. And he isn't super political, but as rare and that he comes at things from a conservative point of view about movies and Hollywood politics,

Christian Toto: 0:11

you know, I just joined out kick, which is a really interesting site, because I feel like they're doing a lot of things that ESPN doesn't want to do, either politically, culturally, we're even just showing, you know, beautiful women, it seems like that's sort of anathema right now. And you know, I think if a woman is beautiful, and she's a model, and she wants to show her beauty on her terms, I don't think that's a big deal. I mean, men can do that, too, you know, a couple of sites that I've been treated by one, I've only written once for them, but I think the writing is really good. It's unheard. He rd? You know,

Ken LaCorte: 0:41

that's no, I've heard that a couple times. Who is that? I mean, who's behind that?

Christian Toto: 0:48

We don't, I don't know. I've just I've dealt with one of the editors there. But when I read their stuff, it's it seems to kind of cross partisan lines in a way it's not strictly right or left. And I think that's interesting. And it just smart. It's just smart commentary. And I like that. And, you know, so from that perspective, I enjoy that site, trying to think of other newer ones, you know, I've always I admired the daily wire before I started writing for them.

Ken LaCorte: 1:13

I mean, the only problem with the daily wire is all your stuff is behind the is behind the payroll. So I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna go see what Christian wrote on the wire. And I had a subscription on let it lapse and say, All right, well, I'll go find him somewhere else.

Christian Toto: 1:27

Yeah, you know, and that's a business model. And I think it makes sense for them for sure. As a reader, that can be frustrating for me, but I get it. I mean, you have to, you have to survive. And you know, it's funny I, I've seen newspapers collapse, I live in Denver, the Denver Post is a shell of a fraction of what it used to be. And I think that some outlets just didn't, couldn't figure out how to transition to the digital space, and some have so

Ken LaCorte: 1:50

and the daily wire is one of those, those are some of the smartest guys who understand how the internet works. You know, you see some, you see some video, people coming over like a lot of the cable news, I used to work in cable news for most of my life, they try to pop on there, and they just don't understand the music of the internet versus versus cable but, but the guys at the Daily wire, get

Christian Toto: 2:10

it. And I don't want to give away too much secret sauce. And I don't know a lot of it, but they are smart. They're smart. What you read on the site is smart, but behind the scenes, they're just really savvy. And now as he goes on the top down, and Ben Shapiro is one of the brightest people around,

Ken LaCorte: 2:24

I think in 10 years, they if that there'll be a competition for a lot of what we consider legacy media and major major media outlets out kick has a chance to just because there Yeah,

Christian Toto: 2:36

and yet the daily wire has gotten into some investigative work, which is critical. And I know it's, it's expensive. It's it's it's exhausting. I'm sure he could chase something that doesn't actually come to fruition, which is, which is a waste in a way. But I think in the right of center space, you need that because I think it's it's everywhere on the left, and I think it's a you know, I think inside and

Ken LaCorte: 2:56

it's and it's radically missing, I mean, I you can count the number of investigative reporters at Fox News. On one hand, if even if you got a hand partially caught in a press, I mean, there's just, it's, it's expensive, and you need good people. So it's so you get one person, he or she has to have a lot of skills that you don't necessarily have coming coming out of college and coming at the low level stuff, you know, they make more money rewriting a Britney Spears story than they would with with the investigative stuff just because you know, one took an hour or 40 minutes to write the other might take a month, two months. It's it's legal fears, it's it's jumping into things. And it's a hard game, but it's but it's important. And the fact that it doesn't exist on the right is a huge deal.

Christian Toto: 3:44

Yeah. And it can change the needle, that daily wire, I had some investigative work on schools in Virginia, and that really had an impact. It's funny, you know, when I do my writing, one of the things I try to focus on is to be different or to kind of attack and attack a story from an angle that you maybe wouldn't expect. We're even more specific that I try to connect a lot of dots culturally speaking, because I figure the average website often doesn't do that. More if you know, share says something that's kind of silly. You know, there'll be a lot of sites that pounce on it and bring attention to it. And that's fine. It's in the news cycle. But I try to do something a little bit different, a little bit more in depth. I don't always succeed, I'm sure. But that's what I try to pursue with my work.

Ken LaCorte: 4:23

How long roughly, have you been doing movie reviews, entertainment, focus on on things because I want to talk about that cycle. That cycle of how much it's changed. Yeah, you

Christian Toto: 4:33

know, it's funny, I went to art school, I have three Arts degrees, which I've yet to use visually, and never will. And then I was like, I want to be a movie critic. So I kind of tried to steer myself into journalism then I kind of got there around the late 1990s, early 2000s with the Washington Times and they were very nice and generous. And let me kind of do that work. And I just kept kept at it. And so I've kind of built it from there. So 20 plus years now and you It is radically different in many ways. And when I first entered the business, I was at a right of center paper. And I was just kind of kind of finding my own ideology. And I was kind of drifting to the right in September 11 happened, I drove past the Pentagon that morning and a half hour later it was attacked. And I just realized I got to watch out, both sides approached that awful situation that, you know, and I think I think I'm gonna lean to the right, because I don't I don't like what the other side is saying that was sort of my awakening. But you know, it didn't really impact my work directly. I was just reviewing movies and movies were less political than less overt. And I just did what I did. And um, you know, listen to him, they always seep into my writing, but it wasn't aggressive. It wasn't conscious. And I think a lot of my fellow critics weren't as aggressive about letting their left of center views impact what they do. But that changed over the years. And now it's it's front and center. It's very aggressive. But I will say when I work for a site that is apolitical, or striving to be apolitical, I don't, I don't review films from a right of center lens,

Ken LaCorte: 6:03

right? I've noticed I've noticed that. Good. Yeah, I just, you know, for me, it's, it's usually it's like, if you can keep this shit out of it, meaning the politics one way or another I'm having I don't want to go see a conservative oriented movie, depending on what that means. I mean, that could mean a lot. You know, that sounds as that sounds as unentertaining, as watching is watching a woke movie.

Christian Toto: 6:26

Yeah, and I think there's two different conversations, there's the art that may be left or right. But also, there's the writing a review, and what I've noticed in recent years, that a lot of critics really lean into their biases in ways that are, I don't agree with in a sense, and you know, if someone's writing reviews for the nation, or another, it would, you know, other HuffPo, that I think it's perfectly fine to be liberal to kind of embrace that and kind of incorporate that into reviews. But most critics really are for the general audience. And when you kind of lean heavily into your bias, as in your own personal points of view, I don't think you're doing the reader a service. So I try to be aware of that, when I do my stuff.

Ken LaCorte: 7:04

I kind of, again, from my point of view, I like to go and be entertained, I like to leave the world behind. And then when the orange when the orange faced bad guy comes up, it's just like, you had to do it again, I almost wish there was a place and, and to some extent, I can get that from you. of just, I don't need to see a lot about it. I don't need to see it from a conservative angle. But I'd like to know how many eye rolls are in a movie because, for instance, after the Gulf War 90% of every movie that was made, showed us military guys as being you know, basically the Nazis, you know, not quite as bad. But yeah, who's raping? You know, who's raping the little girl? It's an American, who's the bad guy who's all of all of these. So, you know, they said, Well, they didn't get popular because he just couldn't go to it without being like, Oh, stop. Is there what is there one? Like, kind of, I don't know, Wikipedia. Again, I I'm not looking for ideology. I'm just looking for Hey, careful, you're gonna get the the woke ads at minute seven. And and this, is there any kind of overview place to find stuff like that, or you just kind of have to have your own favorite critics.

Christian Toto: 8:13

I mean, that's what I do at my site. And what I try to kind of explore is, okay, here are the woke elements, here's whether they work or don't work within the context of the story. But I'm not going to, you know, not like a movie because it's woke. You know, I want to let the reader know, it's coming and kind of pointed out because it's what my my website does, which is what most critics and most websites don't do, but I don't want to kind of let that flavor what I say about the film overall. And, and to get in Conversely, if the film is sort of right of center, or patriotic, whatever kind of cliche, you want to throw at it, it stinks. I gotta say it stinks. So I don't I mean, I think that if you read me if you read John molti at Breitbart News, Kyle Smith, those are sort of the I think the premier voices out there who kind of do what your

Ken LaCorte: 8:58

note is a little bit more hardcore with some of his stuff, he he jumps in with a knife in each hand and rips people up.

Christian Toto: 9:07

I've worked with John Nulty I have the highest respect for him. I think he's an amazing writer. But he's He's Mr. sharp elbows. So you know, that's just his style, but I I think no one writes a review like and

Ken LaCorte: 9:18

so I spent just this weekend, I was at the the Legion of Honor, which is in San Francisco. It's it's a very nice art gallery, a lot of Renaissance type of stuff. And as I was walking through that, you know, you get glimpses into the past, right? I mean, when you see a full color imagery of something from 1600s, it brings you brings you to that, that place in time in a way that nothing else of that generation could, but nothing had the emotional impact and the entertainment value of a good movie. It was just and, and and I really do believe that that that is our generations and probably the Next Generations art form that will define our culture. I mean, you can learn more and be more entertained and learn more about the culture sometimes accidentally, yeah, through a good movie than you can through a painting or something in marble. And, you know, maybe, maybe that maybe that puts me as a not as high upper class as I should be. But I really do believe that this is our art form of this world.

Christian Toto: 10:25

Well, I don't disagree, and it is what it is, whether you're, whether you're an elitist, or a, you live in a small town, USA, you know, you're pointing out the obvious, I think that's, that's, that is our culture, we, you know, there are certain movies that change the culture that changed the conversation. But I will kind of expand that to say that TV is sort of entering that space, and even maybe the the memes, the video platforms, the YouTube channels, you know, I've got two kids, they're early teens, and I have to practically begged them to watch movies with their dad. So I think what you're saying is completely accurate. And, and, you know, class aside, it's true, but I do wonder about the next 2030 years with it, maybe the kids will be, you know, maybe the video games will be impacting the culture or the YouTube channel does your will be doing it? Or,

Ken LaCorte: 11:11

you know, I do kind of conflate those because I actually think that, that the long format, you know, nobody, nobody now makes a one TV show that has to be eight, eight episodes, no matter what. But it gives them the time to build characters to make make story arcs to, to paint a world even even when they're How do I say not as artfully done as some others? They have? You know, having eight hours of entertainment is a lot? Well,

Christian Toto: 11:36

I think there's a lot of double innovation, there were the sort of the ongoing narratives with these shows, you know, I grew up that was a watch the show the story ended and wrapped up and a half an hour to an hour. And that's no longer the case. But also you don't need 22 episodes per season, you could do six or eight, right? And that gives you more time to get better actors to get better scripts, to get more budget into them. And those are all changes that are really amplified how great television can

Ken LaCorte: 12:01

be. So I've been getting tired of movies, at least the ones that have been released in the last couple of years. And one finally gave me a good Boehner. It was and and you could probably guess it because it was I think the best movie to come down the pike from an entertainment standpoint in the last couple years. If you just had to guess what would that be for somebody? Top Gun Maverick Top Gun Maverick was a wonderful movie. It was. Tell me what your How did that happen? Was that was that just Tom Cruise having the having the the kind of directorial or control over that? Or how do you think how do you think that that came about? Because that movie is radically different than any other action movie I've seen in America in the last three, five years?

Christian Toto: 12:50

Yeah, I mean, I think Tom Cruise has a lot to do with it. I think he's aggressively apolitical. I think he's aggressively not thrusting himself into the culture wars that we've been discussing for the last three, four or five years. I think he realized when he kind of dabbled in public Scientology and jumped on a couch that that was detrimental to his career. And he also that he's one of these fellows like Clint Eastwood, where he has a sense of what the American public wants to see. And I think it's why Clint Eastwood is still a movie star into his 90s is because all those years he kind of, he got us and it doesn't mean he didn't make a clunker here or there. made quite a few, but he just understands what American people want to see. So I think that's part of it. I think he I think Tom Cruise understands. It's a Top Gun movie, you don't want a nuanced conversation about war, about drones, about, you know, geopolitical benefits about the real life, world and Russia and Iran. He just knew you wanted a generic bad guy, you wanted heroism, but also it really does tap in to the American exceptionalism in a way that very few films do. And, you know, for all those reasons, the special effects the fact that he's always dialed into everything he does, it just it just fired on every possible cylinder. It's not a great film from a an artistic point of view. There's not it's formulaic, it's it's kind of popcorn in a way, but it does what it does so well and is so entertaining, and is so satisfying. And like you said, it's become rare. And I think it's that's really all the reasons why it's so popular. One of the

Ken LaCorte: 14:28

things that I loved about it was they had a diverse cast, they had a female pilot, and nobody said anything about it. It was kind of like the real world Have you ever been on like a project working in a corporate America and and you never say like, Wow, you did a great job. And you're a woman? I mean, it's is it just like sore or? Well, look, we have a black person running are running our HR department. I mean, in the real world, we in America have become so used to two different different looking people and different genders in in multiples of roles that it's kind of not consequential. So they didn't do the, you know, if it was Marvel, they would have had the one female pilot as she was coming in, they would have played the music and she would have said something a little bit so that you knew Ah, see a woman can fly a plane here. It was just like, yeah, yeah, they can. And that was very, I don't know, there was something very American about not making a big deal out of something that is so American,

Christian Toto: 15:30

I agree is one of the things I noticed about the last Spider Man film, which was a monstrous hit No way home. It wasn't woke at all. It was just sheer entertainment, with some fan service and a bunch of nostalgia built in. And it was expertly done. And it was so refreshing. There was never a moment in that movie nor Top Gun that pulled you out of the experience and ah, get there's your lecture. And I want to point to another franchise, which does is beautifully, and I don't think they'll change as fast and furious, but isn't aggressively diverse cast. And, you know, lots of characters. They're all lovable. they're funny, they're they're quirky, they're interesting, they're charismatic, there's not a word to my knowledge. And that whole franchise where it's woke, there's lectures, you can't do it, because you're a woman. Oh, yeah, I'll show you. They just do it. I mean, the movies are silly. They're crazy. They're getting crazy. I think they're kind of jumped the shark creatively speaking. But it's an aggressively diverse cast, and no one cares. And it's a massive hit. Because it's fun. And it's entertaining. And it's on point. And you don't need you don't need the lectures. It just it's it's unnecessary. Really,

Ken LaCorte: 16:41

you know, sometimes I wonder if it's some of the movies that intentionally go for kind of a middle class audience as opposed to where, you know, we're, we're going to produce this movie, and we're all going to get Academy Awards. You know, I think of some of the ones 20 years ago, the RAMBo franchise, or the Rocky franchise that were also similar in that day, because because a lot of the movies back in the 70s, late 70s, early 80s. They were I mean, you know, you watch taxi driver, Jesus, I mean, it's like, you know, it was all about it was every awful thing you could think to say about a city or humans and crammed it into into two hours. And I know everybody loves it, but it was, it was just kind of disgusting on so many ways. And it was kind of the, the ham handed movies that came along with the guys said, This is what people want. This is our values, and we share it and then they exploded into into into things that they're still copying 20 years later.

Christian Toto: 17:38

I mean, look at Quentin Tarantino, when he exploded on the scene, everyone wanted to make a Tarantino like movie. And we saw a lot of them. It's just that those filmmakers didn't have the skill that Quentin Tarantino had. So you had these pale bad imitations of what Tarantino did. It's like Scorsese, you just, he's very he's very unique filmmaker. So you can you know, he can depth those those. This sort of the human spirit and that depravity in ways that are artistically sound doesn't mean that everyone loves them. You know, there's people who love Tony Soprano, and people who can't watch that, because of the violence and the gore, and the nudity and the aggressiveness. That's fine. But as far as art, these are really well produced productions.

Ken LaCorte: 18:13

So I sometimes like seeing older movies that were great movies, or call great movies in the past. But a lot of times I my version of reality is so different than the person's in the in the 50s. And 60s, it's hard. It's hard for me to appreciate them. So like for instance, in the last couple of months, I've watched rear window, a Hitchcock film, and I just saw Sweet Smell of Success, which was hugely acclaimed. But when I was watching it, it was like the interplay between people was still just kind of ham handed. And from my point of view, dumb right? Now, these are huge, well, sweet, small success wasn't a commercial success, but it was it was a it was certainly a critical success when you're watching something from the 50s And how do you judge it? How do you how do you get how do you judge a movie in its for its time as opposed to from our our mores and how we tell stories and pacing and, and human interactions?

Christian Toto: 19:15

It's challenging in different ways. The pacing, I think, is the most profound difference. Because when you watch new movies today, they're mindless are just they're constantly a blur motion. And I that's one area where I feel like I'm aging as a critic where I just think, Gosh, could they slow it down? Or I don't like this or it just seems too frantic. And I'd imagine maybe younger quicker, like yeah, this is great. You're

Ken LaCorte: 19:36

gonna get on you gotta get on tick tock more, and then you'll be amazed,

Christian Toto: 19:40

destroy my attention span. But I think I think what you said is right, is that you are aware that this is the 1950s and that this is the way they spoke in a way or this is the way that they shaped conversations or this is the way the interactions are but I think that good stories will lap everything. So you know, I grew up why 80s movies I watch it now, the soundtrack the bad soundtracks and the bad fashions great on me, to an amazing extent it's so distracting. When they're good stories, you just get lost in it after a while that those those becomes just sort of just distractions. I don't care, you don't care that you get wrapped up in the story. So just be aware of it, I guess. I mean, you can't it's unfair to judge a movie especially culturally by modern standards. You know, James Bond mistreated women or was was sexist with them. But that's who he was. And that was the era it's not ideal. I don't think you need a woke James Bond but I also don't want to have a seat Daniel Craig swatting a an actress on the on the but as part of the story, I'm okay with him cutting that out. So you know, just be aware of the time but I think the great stories endure.

Ken LaCorte: 20:52

Yeah, to me it to me, it's more stilted dialogue. And, you know, movies also kind of came from the theater. And so the the early swath of movies I found where we're, you have to kind of view them somewhat between a play and a movie, and you go to a play and the human interactions are different, you know, the story sometimes popped around that. And sometimes I say, Okay, cut it a little slack on that. Humor is also another one that oh, gosh, is so humorous, almost. I mean, there's a couple old time funny movies. But, you know, when I was a kid, there was nothing funnier than Steve Martin. I mean, he was selling out huge stadiums. And he was innovative. And he was he was, you know, he was he was fantastic comedy. You watch it now. And you're kind of, you know, it's like, it's embarrassing. It's like, it's like looking at old home movies, yourself wearing bell bottoms. I mean, you're just like, I don't even understand the humor at all. And I'm not even talking about different values, like Blazing Saddles, which everybody go to jail if they made Blazing Saddles today, just kind of and I don't know, if it's timing, I don't know if if humor more closely reflects harder to discern values or how that works. I haven't figured that one out.

Christian Toto: 22:07

Comedy is the ages the worst and many ways. I think about Saturday Night Live, you know, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, the, all the bits back in the early days of the show that we revered. I think if you put them out today, people like what is what is this, this is garbage. Sometimes just things just strike at the right time. Three years ago, I was working the Washington Times, and I was reviewing a kind of the Lost Tapes of Lenny Bruce. And it really, I knew of Lenny Bruce, but I really wasn't familiar with his work. And I listened to a lot of the material. But this is terrible. I'm not laughing. I'm enjoying it. But you know, he was a genius. And he was an innovator. And he shattered the mold of stand up comedy. But it doesn't mean that his stuff indoors in a way that will laugh at it. Now, you know, a lot of it was rooted in the 60s culture, you know, we're not there anymore. So it's fascinating, but you know, but it makes you really enjoy the company that that does last. One of my favorite movies of all time is Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein. And I watched it with my kids. And we all laughed at it. I mean, it really is timeless, and I guess slapstick, when done well, maybe can endure the best because there's no sort of cultural cues involved. It's just sort of a, you get a visceral reaction, either. It's funny, or it's not.

Ken LaCorte: 23:19

Right. I guess the only old ones that I routinely will go back to is I Love Lucy. And even though although one of the interesting things about when you watch those old I Love Lucy, is it gives you a sometimes a better sense of the concept of fame, because they would often have famous guests being being in their show. And you would never know that. Oh, you know, I didn't know Charles boy a are some of these, you know, and we see people in our society and you see, you see 12 Pretty girls, and one of them happens to be a huge actress. She just gets elevated in our, in our minds and in our society on that. So to see the old I Love Lucy episodes where everybody was falling over themselves, and you're like, why was that guy so special? He wasn't necessarily good looking. He didn't say anything particularly interesting. He just was another guy. But he had that that that sprinkle fairy dust of fame.

Christian Toto: 24:14

I think one of the things that I enjoy the most about the work I do is when I revisit older material, films, I enjoyed watching as a kid that I kind of watched with new eyes, not just that I'm older now, I've also seen so many different films and TV shows since then, I see it from a different cultural lens that kind of have nostalgia baked in. It's fascinating to me. And you know, and the movies that do stand up are marvelous and the ones that don't are it's depressing at times, but it's fascinating. It's just it's a great snapshot of where we are at any moment.

Ken LaCorte: 24:47

On the broader term. Do you think movies today are substantially or minorly more political or a little bit? I mean, they've always you know, sometimes you would see less Say, Let's look at the integration of races. And oftentimes what we would look might look back at something in the 60s, and be like, Oh, it's a black guy doing XY and Z or an interracial couple or something. It wouldn't even register to me as politics, because they won that art, you know that the culture changed and accepted that as the norm. Do you see? I know, we all bitch about it a lot more. And obviously, you go on Twitter, and everything is everything. Do you see in the typical movies more politics than than we've had in the past few decades,

Christian Toto: 25:33

I think it's a combination of political and cultural and the woke stuff, which I've written about so extensively, is in so many different products. And as someone who watches a lot of movies i There are certain tells, if a character comes into the scene, and maybe it's a black person or a woman of color, in the back of my mind, and they get Okay, that's not going to be the villain, where they're going to be sort of idealized, or they can't be this or that, because that would cause a kerfuffle. So that does kind of cross my mind at times and not always right. But um, sometimes I am right and sometimes you can predict it. So

Ken LaCorte: 26:09

sometimes that bothers me. I would always if I saw a guy I remember watching the show, I love the show, the wire, not the wire, it was the other one the shield. It was kind of a pre wire, it was based on the the LE rampart. And there was this tall, good looking black guy who was he was arresting somebody throughout a line from the Bible. And I turned to my wife, and I'm like, they're gonna bring him down pretty quick. To watch two episodes later, he was given a blow job to another guy in the back bar. I'm like, I called that one. You can't just let it let somebody say a Bible verse and get away with not being a bad guy. I don't I don't think I've seen it in kind of any mainstream Hollywood movie.

Christian Toto: 26:49

That's a great LA. You know, there's, there's a recent story about how there's a new black female character and the new Obi Wan Kenobi show. And I guess it drew a few, like a scattering amount of racist tweets or something. I mean, there's, there's hate about everything. So I'm sure it was not an avalanche. And even one tweet is kind of gross. Obviously, we don't want that. But they made a big deal of it, like, Oh, we don't need this. And this is terrible. And the official Star Wars community kind of rallied around him thinking, you know, 30 years ago, we had Lando Calrissian, Billy Dee Williams, and no one batted an eye, right. And I guess he may have gotten some hateful messages or, you know, penmanship, you know, 10 letters in the mail that were saying, I hate you because you're black. It just wasn't a thing, at least not in any significant way. So why is it today? And I think because we've become so hyper sensitive to it. And the sort of like, you need to cast a person of color in a role to get the diversity levels up, as opposed to, we found this great actor. And we have to have him in the show, because he's so amazing. And I think that's that's the disconnect here. And I think that there are people who are not racist. They're just suspicious of Hollywood for sort of jamming these this diversity down our throat, like, like fast and furious that there's no controversy ever about that series. No one cares. They just love it. Because the character is all this actors are just charming.

Ken LaCorte: 28:16

And I have never seen a Fast and Furious film. I it just always looked like a surf film to me. Are they are they? If I had to watch one Fast and Furious film, which do you is one standout?

Christian Toto: 28:29

You know, the middle, like maybe 567 They kind of got the formula right at that point, where it was fun, and it was crazy. Great. Cast it all gelled. I mean, sure, the first ones fine. I haven't seen it in a long time. But I just think they kind of found like, almost like the recent Mission Impossible films. The first three or four are all good. They're fine, you know, various levels, but then they they hit their stride. Amazing stunts, they've got a great supporting crew for Tom Cruise. It just it's all the pieces fell into place. So that's why I feel about Fast and Furious. But again, where's the outrage if we're such a racist nation, and we are so outraged by people of color getting jobs? And why aren't we complaining about that movie series? No one is because

Ken LaCorte: 29:10

there's also a desire to be a victim. So every person who does something I agree. And you know, there's enough assholes on Twitter that you can cure cancer and somebody is going to be pro cancer. And then you can be you get, you get to do that. I actually, one of the things that the Mission Impossible movies are doing that I finally appreciate is they're not confusing the hell out of me. It's like sometimes I watch those movies. And I'm like, I'm a pretty smart guy. I mean, I went to graduate school. I don't know what the hell is going on here. I don't know. Why is he shooting him? I thought they were bodies have to pause it and talk to somebody but

Christian Toto: 29:42

you bring up something interesting. I found that movies in the last maybe 10 years have gotten overly complicated. And I think that screenwriters feel like oh my gosh, how smart and clever I am. I've made all these layers and it's so intriguing, and you've got to really follow it and it's like Inception and tendency. I don't think that's great storytelling. I mean, listen, I don't want to dumb down tales. And I don't want to like to A to B to C. But I also think this sort of emphasis on ornate stories that you have to kind of follow every note and look at the this and note that character, I just don't think that's good storytelling. I really don't. And I think

Ken LaCorte: 30:18

once in a while, if that's all it's about, there was one and I forget the name of it. It was a time travel movie, and you had to watch it five times just to figure it out. It was almost like playing a game. Yeah. And that was fun in that it was just for that. It really, there's really no other theme. It was just as Do you remember the one I'm talking about?

Christian Toto: 30:35

Don't make it a looper.

Ken LaCorte: 30:39

Yeah, it was it was in that genre. Where you you kinda you kind of had to do that. You have

Christian Toto: 30:44

I'm lost to it. That's not good. Isn't there people smarter than me there are people dumber than me. I like to think I can hang in there but there are movies I just I just kind of throw me or when they finally resolve it, it's so convoluted and so right. Oh, this this this had to happen. And this coincidence had to fall into place and line item by that I'm sorry.

Ken LaCorte: 31:05

Yeah, I don't mind checking out every once in a while. You know, when they bring in stuff like even in Maverick. I wish they would have addressed only my only kind of downside with the movie. I wish they would have addressed it with one sentence. Instead of this crazily basically suicide mission that all these guys have to go into to get this. Why can't we get all those missiles that we launched at the airport at the beginning, just shoot that. I wish there would have been the one throwaway line I forget what you call it in the moviemaking business, it's just and we can't use cruise missiles because the confabulate er is jammed

Christian Toto: 31:37

exposition where the summon kind of walks on the screen and says bah, bah, bah, bah blah. Yeah,

Ken LaCorte: 31:41

but but the handwave the the thing that it's like, Well, why didn't they just do that? So have you ever thought about getting into the business in a more in a in a? In a more hands on way? I mean, from the from the critic to a Have you ever like said, Have you ever written a screenplay or wanting to jump in the world that way?

Christian Toto: 32:01

I you know, I think I toyed with screenplay writing in my late 20s, early 30s, and just kind of drifted away. At this point, I know so much about the business, I wouldn't go near it. You know, I think if I've got kids, I've got juggling so many different projects at this point that I couldn't even begin to think about writing a screenplay of any consequence. But, you know, maybe then my 60s, maybe I would kind of look into that. I think it'd be kind of fun, even just as an intellectual exercise or something that I can kind of think I did it but yeah, I don't know. I don't have any acting skill. That's, that's out of the question. So half the actors I don't know, I didn't. I think being a fan. I mean, the reason why I got into this whole business, which is, in a way, kind of silly, I just love movies, and I love talking about them. And I love sharing what I what I love about movies. So at the end of the day, if I see a great movie, I can't wait to talk about it. When I see a terrible movie. I can't wait to excoriate it. So that's at the essence of what I do.

Ken LaCorte: 32:58

Do you watch Red Red Letter Media guys much?

Christian Toto: 33:01

Know I'm aware of them. It's a it's one of these. There's not enough time in the day for me to process all the great content out there. There are so many TV shows. I'm just missing. So many indie films. I've always wanted to go back and watch classic older films that I've missed. I just don't have the time. And I've been a solopreneur for for a while. No, I guess around a decade. And it's an exhausting existence. And I love what I do to death. I work seven days a week. I don't regret it. But it is tiring. It does leave less time for the those kind of pursuits.

Ken LaCorte: 33:33

Does it kind of ruin movies for you sometimes in the sense that you don't get to enjoy them as much? Because you're analyzing you're analyzing things as opposed to letting yourself get good flown away in it?

Christian Toto: 33:42

Yes. And no, I think I'm pretty good. When the movies, the movies, excellent. I can kind of lose myself, I put my pad and pen down. I just enjoy the experience. And I think I'll write about it later. I also now look at movie running times, which is something I've never do. And I'm kind of mostly rooting for it to be shorter. Which I think is sort of the crux, is that because you're

Ken LaCorte: 34:00

getting older, and you're like, yeah, I gotta be in bed by 945 because I'm getting up at six tomorrow. And I can't do this stuff anymore. But I

Christian Toto: 34:07

also think that when you see a zillion movies, they often don't feel as fresh as they once did. And then the movies that kind of really throw you a curveball and maybe aren't great. You appreciate them a little more, because you didn't see it coming. So they've been a few films, I guess in the last few years where I thought that's not a great film, but boy, it was original. It was unexpected and when places I didn't didn't see coming, and that's that excites me. So you know, I mean, I love formula to Top Gun is formulaic. It's just done in such a high level. But I am I do have a more more appreciation for that sort of the curveballs

Ken LaCorte: 34:43

Yeah, I do my best when I watch a movie the first time not to try to put myself into the production of it because I do love movies enough where I you know, where, but the first time if I can just let my go along with the flow unless they do something so stupid that pops me out of it. And then the second time I'm like, Okay, what's the director trying to do here? Why, why are we seeing this shot? Why is this moving slowly? What are they doing with color variations, but I kind of can't do both I kind of can't like, jump into and live in that world and take a higher level looking at something and try to analyze it. There are

Christian Toto: 35:20

people that I think my wife would probably fall in this category, she would never, she would rarely watch a movie a second time. And I kind of get that it seems like it's a, an experience. And in its purest form, it's the first time but like you said, When you watch a second or third time, you pick up things, you pick up dialogue, you pick up tonal changes, you pick up special effects, you pick up how the camera moves in a certain way, how the musical cues impact your experience. And I love that about movies.

Ken LaCorte: 35:49

I have a friend who's kind of mildly on the spectrum, I don't I don't know what spectrum that is, but But you know, kind of sometimes has a disconnect with people isn't isn't a social person at all. And when we watch a movie together, at the end of it, he notices five times the things you just said that I did, because he didn't get into that movie at all, he was looking at the panning speed and the and the and the story arc and and he'll talk about things and it's, it's very interesting how it's like, Man, I didn't see any of that I you know, I, you know, I'm not just like, Oh, what is she gonna get stabbed, but, but there's something about being a little disconnected from something to allow you to see that that process coming in.

Christian Toto: 36:28

You mentioned before about the political movies, I like movies that are political in a way where as a conservative, I take away some of my values or some of my thinking with the film. And then a liberal will watch the same movie and pick out things that he or she appreciates about the culture and about, you know, political machinations. I think that's a great film to me, because it allows such diverse interpretation, interpretation. And it's not sort of lecturing you, it's sort of presenting ideas that can be absorbed in different ways. I think that's really great.

Ken LaCorte: 37:03

My favorite movie is when it's over to turn up the lights, and sit with a couple friends and be able to talk about it for half an hour or so. And you can't always do that some movies, your end and it's like, okay, you know, it was a, it might have been a fine movie. Like, I remember watching the Dallas Buyers Club, very interesting movie, but kind of at the end of it, it was like, not much to say we're other ones, whether it's the making of the movie, and, and the art and mechanics of that, or whether it's the issues that it delved into of, you know, like a great painting, you don't just say, Wow, that's a really pretty sunset it, it often hits things in you that you couldn't easily describe. And that's why it's a wonderful I mean, there's a reason why people stand in front of certain pictures for hours or portions of that, and it says something in in a non articulable way that they couldn't get

Christian Toto: 37:53

when I was a teenager, the girls that I knew were very kind to me, they ignored me. So that led me to basically have film critic training and what would I do with my buddies, we go to the movies. And then we go to the diner afterwards, and we talk about the movies endlessly and talk about it on the in the car, on the way to the diner. And that was like my informal training. And I'll share a quick story, which maybe it's not amusing, but I find it amusing. I think my tastes are a little bit different than my buddies, but we're mostly on the same page. And it was fine. But one night, we saw Hudson Hawk, and I only saw it once. And I hated it so much when I first saw it. And so we get in the car while driving to the diner, I'm assuming. And they're all saying how good it was, and breaking it down. And I'm sitting there simmering, thinking, this is such a horrible movie, I can't I don't know what to say I'm keeping quiet. And I, in a very horrible moment. They said, they blurted out, you have to be an idiot. And so we had a very quiet ride home, I think they dropped me off.

Ken LaCorte: 38:46

Thinking about skipping? Did anybody convinced one US or the other was right. That's funny. That's funny. You know, sometimes, I remember wag the dog, which is a great, a great movie, a lot of social commentary. It took me a little bit of time before I realized it was a comedy. And, you know, because you know, I'm a kind of a literal guy. And the second I did, it's like, the movie got 15 times better. It was like, same thing happened when I was watching cats. I don't ever saw the play cats. Well, if you saw cats, and anybody who's seen it, if you didn't know that every single act had absolutely nothing to do with the act before it. It was difficult. You were like, wait is the red cat of this? And then when finally somebody said here, there's just snippets. Do they have nothing to do with each other? Then you're like, oh, okay, well, that wasn't a terrible play. I

Christian Toto: 39:39

context is everything.

Ken LaCorte: 39:40

So the golden age of movies, like you say might be shifting to TV right now. How are they? How are they financially doing with that? I mean, I know Netflix just just took a big big hit. And because it was the first time that they had what a reduction in in actual viewers for a little bit. How do you see Those streaming services, are they still? Are they still going to have the hump and the power that they had in the last three or four or five years as they've made that medium become massively big?

Christian Toto: 40:11

I think so I don't think they have a choice. I think if you're HBO Max, you have to compete with Paramount plus, and Disney plus, and Hulu, and Netflix and Amazon Prime. And of course, other ones have to compete with the rest of them. So I think you really can bring anything about your A game from any of these projects. So we've come to expect them to look like movies, as far as the production values, the actors involved. So I think they're stuck. I you know, the one area that I'm not good at, is I don't have a great sense of fine finances. And I look at Netflix in the last five years and thinking, how do they afford all that? I mean, they're just throwing money at so many different projects, I don't really kind of get how that how it all balances out? And I guess we're learning it's not. But I don't think they have a plan B. And I think with Amazon, that the main Amazon company is so flush with cash, they can drop a gazillion dollars almost literally, on the new Lord of the Rings series. So that'll be interesting to see what happens there. But yeah, I think it's on the plus side is that all these different networks and platforms are competing for our eyeballs. And they have to really bring it in, if you don't, we're just gonna go, Okay, I'm just gonna, I'll sign off on net on Paramount Plus, I'll go back to Hulu, or vice versa. So I think that kind of competition is good for the consumer. But as far as that I just don't exactly know how the numbers crunch out. I really don't.

Ken LaCorte: 41:31

I mean, what I agree with you, and I kind of don't figure it out. And sometimes they don't, they don't work out. But it is nice to get away from kind of the Hit Factory that we had that controlled the finances for movies up until the streaming services came along. So it was like, if you don't make a movie that can break X million dollars, we're not even trying, which of course gives us you know, the same Marvel movie 16 times and you know, I'm watching the same things over and over again, to me the concept that they can they can make movies that that apply to a more narrow group of audience and sometimes that'll be things I don't care about. And sometimes that'll be me. Because Have you ever tried to add up how many how many serious movies and or, and or series come out every every year? I mean, it seems like a bottomless pit. Now, in a good way.

Christian Toto: 42:23

I get emails from most of the studios, most of the platforms, most of the indie studios. It's, it's staggering. I mean, even just one like Netflix, every day, my Netflix inbox is just bombarded by new new stuff, you know, stand up specials and TV shows. And is it cake? I mean, it's everything. I just it's amazing how much I I kind of use the term content guilt. There's so much out there and there's a lot of good stuff. I don't I just don't have time to see it. I feel guilty, like I'm missing all this great stuff. But it is an embarrassment of riches, and I am maybe in 20 years, we'll kind of go back and think, Oh, I missed all these great shows that they go back.

Ken LaCorte: 43:04

Yeah, no, I think I think you make a really good point, you know, and I often wait on the series, because of time, I just wait until they're over. And I wait until people are like, Oh my God, you've never saw that it was the greatest series ever. So you know, I saw the wire maybe three years after the whole series was said and done until people were like, you know, you're it's the godfather of the godfather of TV. Actually, that was one of the TV shows that certainly had politics and social commentary built into it. Yeah, but it was such a wonderful way. Go ahead.

Christian Toto: 43:35

You mentioned before about movies in sort of the the niche shows that we get on these platforms, which is good because if rubies take a chance and they blow a big budget on the on the particular film and it flops, it's a huge black eye. And they okay, then now we're doing smoking the bandit 12, or Everly Hills Cop eight, or it's his grandson or something. But on TV, I think they're much more experimentation will. That's the right word. And also audiences are much more willing to take a chance because your home. It's easy. You don't like it, you tune out in 20 minutes, but I don't think people take a chance on movies in the theater because it's expensive. They have to hire a babysitter, sometimes. It's you have to drive 20 miles. I mean, there's all these different factors. But if it's just flipping the channels, and there's this new esoteric science fiction show, right? I'll give it a try. I'll spin the dice. So that's what you get. So the more creative stories as opposed to all the different franchises we see in the theaters. I mean, I you know, there's gonna be a Barbie movie. There's gonna be a Hot Wheels movie. There's so many projects I just it makes me want to gag and maybe there'll be good I don't want to you know, I'm not gonna dismiss them out of out of sight. But on paper it sounds terrible. Right but it's brand it's I

Ken LaCorte: 44:46

thought about the leg cool about the Lego movie would have been good though. And that was a wonderful moment.

Christian Toto: 44:50

Yeah, no, yeah. It was very clever and funny and unique and, and smart and sly. So I don't dismiss them all with him at all a chance but on paper I I want to see a Barbie movie.

Ken LaCorte: 45:02

But you're right about the seeing at home versus seeing it. You know, I went to I saw, I saw the maverick movie in an IMAX. Alright, well, that's 25 bucks a pop, and popcorn and not much stuff that was close to 20 went into San Francisco. That's a that's an $8 bridge toll. And parking was an extra 15 on top. It was like that was kind of an expensive evening. I don't even have babysitters anymore. But it's also interesting because again, now the question is do I want to give something time and and as you say, there's like a plethora of riches in that.

Christian Toto: 45:34

And also we give the signal to Hollywood that if it's Top Gun Maverick, even if it stinks, opening weekend is going to be 100 million. The New Jurassic World dominion is mediocre to the core. And it was way over 100 I think maybe 140 ish million or so.

Ken LaCorte: 45:51

That was almost disappointing that it succeeded. So well. Now I haven't seen it, but I've read enough reviews on it to know what it is right.

Christian Toto: 46:01

It's baked in. So if you're if you're a studio, why would you not Greenlee greenlit that? It's a no brainer Greenlight

Ken LaCorte: 46:08

that. Why do you think it did? Why do you think it did so? Well? I mean, do you think people are just now back where I can go in a theater again, I don't have to be have a mask or a VAX card or Oh,

Christian Toto: 46:18

yeah, that's that's part of it. But it's a franchise. It's one we have a lot of emotion to based on the first film. There's something about franchises and sequels where we feel almost, it's like, almost like we're obliged to see them by I saw a five of them, I gotta see six. Well, it also starts off like, why did that doesn't make any sense?

Ken LaCorte: 46:36

You know, it starts off with 100%. name ID. Yeah, it's like I used to run political, political campaigns for guys. And gals. You know, the first 90% of your budget is just so that people know, oh, Jim Johnson is running for Congress. I mean, you know, before whatever, that this person stands for anything like that. And so yeah, when you hear Jurassic Park, you're like, oh, there's a new Jurassic Park movie, as opposed to two words that you saw somewhere. You know, another interesting thing, though, is given the way we consume media, I never see ads for these anymore. I mean, back in the day, I'd watch TV and you'd have the TV, you know, Thursday, coming up Wednesday, coming up, you'd see those ads. You know, I tried to use as many ad blockers on on my computer as possible. I most of my stuff streamed. I wonder how they're how they're advertising them that much these days to make to have them bust through?

Christian Toto: 47:31

Well, I think social media is huge. Almost every big movie will have an Instagram account, will have a Twitter account up. I'm assuming Facebook, I don't check out Facebook as much for movies as I do for other stuff. It's a different world. I mean, there are there are teasers before a YouTube clip. So you might see it there. And then the actors get creative. I mean, there are actors now, who should go on this. It's okay. I guess it's a web only show where they eat hot wings. hotter.

Ken LaCorte: 48:02

What's a good shutter? It's, you know,

Christian Toto: 48:05

Why is Paul Rudd doing that? Because he's got a new movie out,

Ken LaCorte: 48:07

right? And they get a million views for Yeah, for these guys. The guy I forgot the guy's name, but he's a wonderful interviewer. He's just, he's just kind of insightful. He does his research. And they're doing something goofy. And so you've got to hook on that. But yeah, it's a great idea. And

Christian Toto: 48:21

it's one of those many things that I've heard good things about, right. I just don't have the bandwidth to actually watch it.

Ken LaCorte: 48:27

Now, that's Look, that's, uh, you know, people would I work for Fox for so many years? And people say, Well, did you watch Hannity last night and I'm like, you know, I watched this thing. 12 hours a day, by the time I'm going home. The last thing I want to watch his Fox News Channel or any other news channel, you know, give give give me a recipe. You hit it just once your glass is full. There's only so much you can go.

Christian Toto: 48:48

If I work at the Olive Garden. I'm not gonna go home and have a zine. Yeah.

Ken LaCorte: 48:52

Exactly. So, you know, we've we've been bitching about, about tech censorship, about about a lot of woke ism. You're right in the middle of that, and I'm sure that you. And I know because I know, marketers that when they when they get something canceled, they tout that up as much as as much as they can to get a sympathy factor. But I also know it's still really, really real. Are you seeing any? Are you seeing it peeking yet? Whether it's in comedy or in in, in a number of other things, or where do you see it in the arc of you said something mildly offensive by our new standards, therefore, you need to disappear.

Christian Toto: 49:34

The woke is still there. It's still powerful. It's still consequential, but there have been some very hopeful signs that it may be in decline slash waiting. You know, look at Netflix. They stood by Dave Chappelle late last year when he was attacked for being allegedly transphobic. They could have easily cut ties with him they could have pulled that special called the closer off fend off the streaming platform. They could have been stronger in denouncing him. We did none of those things. And they went, they went back to work with him and signed up for new projects with Dave Chappelle. That was a significant moment. Also, by the time Ricky Gervais, his new special came out, which is much sharper elbows and anything Dave Chappelle said, and it was white, and he's playing. Yeah, good point. And now there was an initial outrage and it went away. And it didn't, it didn't become a thing. You know, CNN Plus, with woke employees last about a minute and a half. And, you know, Netflix directly came out and said, if you're an employee of ours, and you don't agree with all of our content, or some of it, or a little bit of it, you can go work elsewhere. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but only snow

Ken LaCorte: 50:48

the guy, the guy said that because I read it. He was like, you know, he said it a little nicer. Like, they maybe this isn't the place for you, right? And

Christian Toto: 50:55

that's a powerful, that's basically saying go pound sand.

Ken LaCorte: 50:58

Yes. And it sends a message that well, we'll accept you to have this much disagreement within the youth in our company, you know, at Fox, Roger Ailes was always big on like, you can have all the opinions you want, but you're not attacking your colleagues in public. It was just there's no pissing inside, outside inside of the tent. And people are like, okay, you know, you can have your opinion, you can you can push those those strong. But to go after your own company in a public way, is is, is a reasonable limitation on your, on your on your free speech rights when you live in a company.

Christian Toto: 51:32

And also there was a huge attempt to get rid of Joe Rogan. Huge. I mean, you have classic rock legends trying to cancel him. You had all these people saying he's spreading fake news, while they ignore the view, by the way, which is the biggest purveyor of fake I want

Ken LaCorte: 51:46

to talk about that? Because Because, yes, that's, that's the best answer to a lot of things.

Christian Toto: 51:51

And he did the Drogon I think Rogan seems like a decent guy. And he thought he was doing the right thing by apologizing for using the N word that either it was out of context or never aimed at someone of color. So it was fairly innocent and innocuous. And you know, now you can't say it was never

Ken LaCorte: 52:07

done in a hateful way it was done in a district. So

Christian Toto: 52:10

Joe Rogan, a naive being a nice guy tries to apologize, which is just dousing the fire with kerosene. But he survived. And he's still talking the way he did. He's still trashing, you know, fake news. He's still, you know, breaking up the progressive narrative on certain key topics. COVID free speech. So it didn't change him. He survived. That's important on a cultural level. So those are all promising signs. And you know, I deal with a lot of artists interview and I've chatted with, and they, they find that when they kind of break away from mainstream Hollywood, it's scary. And they don't know what's going to happen next, but often their careers get better. And I think that's interesting, too, Gina Carano, Tyler Fisher, come to mind, you know, so it isn't a death sentence for your career. If you if you blaze your own trail, country, singer, buddy Brown went up, went to Nashville and said, We love you. But you're a little bit too right of center. And he said, Well screw you. I'm going to do it my own way. And now he's very successful. Tom McDonald, the worst rap name in history, you know, doesn't have an it doesn't have a label. And he kills it on YouTube and on iTunes. Because he's good. And he's smart, and he's talented, and he's wild. And he's crazy. And he's irreverent. And he's interesting, and he's provocative. And he doesn't need all the systems. He's got his own system. So the more and more we see these people survive and thrive. The more it emboldens other artists who say, Screw it, I can I can do this. I can do this, too. I don't have to follow the system. I don't have to play by all the rules. Is it really worth it to sell your soul to be on Saturday and I live in 2022? I don't think so.

Ken LaCorte: 53:55

Yeah, I mean, Rogen. You're right. I saw that apology. And I thought, yeah, come on. I hope this works. Because 90% of the time, the second you apologize, you spend you spend nothing. But look, if he really felt bad about it. Go ahead and apologize. What is but he's, you know, he also had had distribution platforms that were diverse. He's got his, you know, he had podcast that was up on Spotify. But he also knew that he could pop right back into that other podcasting world where you send those out there. He's still pretty big on YouTube. One of the other one of the other newly rights, or non you know, non woke alternative was at rumble or one of the other major companies offered him $100 million to do it. And I thought, because because they had just done a SPAC so they kind of a reverse merger. So they had some cash and, and I don't think the guy was just Yammer, and I actually think they had the cash to do it if, if that was the case. And I thought, you know, I've been hoping for years when there's only one place that you can hit play and watch videos and it's and it's YouTube. They get to write their own rules as a you know, As a distribution platform, yeah, as these others are starting to burble up even though the it's like, I haven't been to Trump social yet, but it's good that it's there and it's good to Gabs there and and get her and all of these others. They may be minor minor players, but they're an option for somebody so that they don't have to kowtow as much. Because, you know, the whole Youtube world is still, it's still very scary. I mean, I mean, I've had reasonable conversations pulled down for their reason does your to, to silence people and protect them from from, from my speech?

Christian Toto: 55:36

I mean, all I have to do is study for a nanosecond, the hunter bad Hunter Biden laptop story, how big tech silence did, how the mainstream media kept it kept it from being a factor in the election in 2020. It's everything you need to know about the culture right now. And by the way, another voice who astounds me, and I can't quite figure him out, in a way is Russell Brand because I used to cover him 510 years ago, and he was a raging socialist, who had very weak ideas, not that not so much that I just disagree with socialism. But you know, he was an affluent fellow who lived the life of an affluent person who is singing the praises of socialism, there were a lot of holes in his thinking. And now he's just like Rogan, and he's on YouTube. And he's, he's just amassing a major following there. And he's, he's fusing humor, and insight, and sort of a provocative nature. It's very effective. He's very charming,

Ken LaCorte: 56:30

you know, there is a huge group of people who want to hear conversations, conversations like this, where we're not saying and then Joe Biden, getting into kind of the nuts and bolts politics of the day. And Russell Brand says a lot of really interesting things, but they're not like, I mean, sometimes he's talking about the absolute news of the day, but a lot of times it's into, you know, into larger philosophical, what are called small p politics, you know, how we want to govern ourselves, what's important for society moving forward, what values do we value and what values should we raise or, or lower, he's got a little bit of, of conspiratorial thing, you know, you're going on that as well, which, which isn't my cup of tea, but it's a lot, a couple of things. One, one guy, and I know you just wrote about him, who was also in that, that world of I can listen to him, I know that he probably thinks differently about politics than me. But he's talking about the larger issues and in, in a way that I find fascinating and in depth, and very good is Matthew McConaughey. And you knew he was going to be a Democrat, and you knew he was, and then he went with with a terrible tragedy of a school shooting. And he kind of really staked out his party and his hardcore beliefs in that. Yeah. Which to me doesn't negate the other parts of it. But it's like, okay, now I know, kind of what I'm dealing with. How much do you think that hurt or helped him? I mean, I'm not quite sure on that. But it was very unmasking makhana hay of the last two years like for him to do that.

Christian Toto: 58:13

Yeah. You know, I, I appreciate him because his tone. And his message is never vicious or via like, like a lot of celebrities these days. Even when I disagree with him, he's doing it in a way that's more empathetic, and more kind and more rational. I don't agree with everything. He says. You know, it depends what his what he wants for his future. I mean, if he literally wants a political career, then he's aligning with a party that has that is much more rigid than people in the right. I mean, when you think about people on the right, who do they love, they love Ricky Gervais, and Dave Chappelle, and Joe Rogan, they're all left leaners some aggressively so. But because we were so desperate for free speech fighters, we embrace them wholeheartedly. And you know, I don't think people in the Democratic Party are going to embrace Matthew McConaughey with his kindness and his willingness to reach out to Trump supporters. Like, like a fart in church, honestly.

Ken LaCorte: 59:10

But they love them. They love some cute celebrities too. And he's good. And he's and he's, yeah, but he's also he also how do I say? He taps into the emotion of of people, and he reaches them on on and I don't necessarily want to say he's acting because I don't I don't believe that's the case. But part of part of it and, and I've discovered myself, I live in the Bay area here. So very, very few people think about life the way I think about life. And he's in Texas, and I know he's in Austin. But there's something and I noticed a change in in Bill Maher's. Well, there's something when you're trying to when you're with people that don't believe what you believe, and you're not trying to be strident. You're actually just trying to say, Well, you asked and Here's what I believe. And you kind of lay out your your point in a, in a way, especially if you like the people I mean, you know, I, I have I have you know, most of my friends some of whom I love, just think very much opposite of politics with me. So when we go out for a beer it's there's never a retelling of voices or anything like that. But you're, you're saying you're trying to explain yourself from a position of love from a position of, of goodness as opposed to when you get on to Twitter and now it's just you know, who's ever the biggest asshole gets the most amount of retweets. And and I wonder how much being in that opposite world like Bill Maher used to be a sneering asshole. I mean, when I would see Bill Maher it was I mean, the word sneer. I mean, and he would get it on his face, and it was and he would go after, you could go after Christians and you people and he'd have that knee on his voice that you just wanted to be like shmack. And now that he's getting popular for saying unpopular thing amongst his base, he he does it in a different way. He doesn't do it with the my shit doesn't stink and yours does. He says things and part of its I'm agreeing with him more. But he says things in a different style. And I wonder how much that has to do with people being you know, being the opposite ones of where they stand versus just in the echo chamber, where which so much has become you just kind of tout your own side as loud as you can.

Christian Toto: 1:01:34

You know, a lot of people have talked about Bill Maher, including myself, but I don't think I've heard that observation, I think it's dead on the more thing is interesting because he he broached the trans subject recently. And I know that's a minefield, right. And he I thought he did it in such a careful, considerate way. That was really just questioning, asking, doing it in a way that was as gentle as possible. Then there are people who just wanted his hide apps that are that wow, it's like, listen, when you watch the Ricky Gervais special super nature, it's, it's, he's throwing some uppercuts, I get it. And if you are sympathetic to the trans community, and they're, they're sort of their biggest causes. I can see you not taking that well. But that was not Bill Maher's approach at all, it was so cautious. And yet he still caught Flack and like II, you know. And that's, that's what's frustrating in the culture is that you can throw the sharp elbows or you can be as kind and gentle and decent and insensitive and sincere as possible. And the results are the same.

Ken LaCorte: 1:02:46

I do think some of that's medium driven in the sense that when you're a comedian out there on the air, you have to kind of push it a little bit more versus, like on a stage versus versus in the I know, Twitter is so bad that I try to stay away from it. Because it's it's, it's like having a little devil on your shoulder. And it's because it's like you say something nuanced and cool. And everybody ignores you. You you call somebody a poopoo head and it's like, whoa, hey, look that it's being retweeted around it's almost. And I don't think it's intentional by Twitter, but I don't know if it's a human nature thing. So I which is why I think one of the few really, really, I mean, look, the concept of Facebook is great, because you can see, I can see my niece going on vacation with her kids. Right, right. I used to until they banned me I haven't seen it. I tell you that I lost contact with a huge amount of friends you know, those high school friends that you went back to Facebook and you see them all out there. Oh, so and so became a plumber. So once I was an accountant, well you don't swap your phone numbers with it. And then Facebook pulls your your your you know, a racist you from existence. It's like alright, well, my whole high school friends I don't see any more. I don't really care that much to track them down. But but but I think the long format and you know, Joe Rogan, it was wonderful to see him becoming successful. It was it was like, wow, here's a guy who's not pandering. He's an intelligent guy. He's laughing a lot. He's, he's, he's full of love. He's full of positivity. He and people actually want to watch it. And that was such like that. That was the big mindfuck with Rogan wasn't that he did it but you know, because those long format shows never never really took off before. You know, the ones on PBS where they sit and have an hour conversation at the roundtable and whatnot. You know, they got miniscule things miniscule ratings I mean you know it's the the Hannity shows on TV we're the ones that pop so I I think long format video and audio are is I think the best thing to come out of out of the internet eco sphere from a from a news light perspective and a long, long time.

Christian Toto: 1:04:57

I couldn't agree more and like I mentioned before about sort The short attention span of my kids and the young generation and tick tock. And yet we're sitting there watching a three hour conversation with Joe Rogan. I do think that we are absolutely starved for authenticity. And to me, you watch a late night show, and maybe they're authentic moments here or there for sure. But everything is so scripted. I think they do a pre interview, they kind of know that the bits, the jokes, the topics that conversations, but with the things that create about podcasting is that the conversation just flows. And it goes in different directions, you don't exactly know where it's going. And it's real. And I think that I would imagine that a podcaster, who's very rigid and very inauthentic. I don't think they last I think in this format, we can really kind of sense who who's real, who's not real, who brings something to the party and who doesn't. And I think that's really refreshing. And I love that I love that I Rogan a lot about the shows that I enjoy. It's just amazing. When I was a kid, I listened to his teenager, Howard Stern, and he was, you know, on terrestrial radio, and they were like, advertising blocks and commercials, and you got to hit it. And when he was having a great interview, he's like, Screw it. We'll do what we'll run it late. And the conversation went on, right. And it was amazing. It was so refreshing. And so exciting, and so different. And he revolutionized that, that whole concept. And I it's one of the many things that reasons why, you know, it's Oh, he's dirty. He's this that he was a genius,

Ken LaCorte: 1:06:27

especially when he was he was kind of like, yeah, he's he's almost become a character of himself. He Yeah, somebody called him once. And it was the greatest point because he was also potty mouth. And they were like, it's like the world's smartest, 13 year old. And he was exactly that. But but, you know, he would say the things you were thinking he would say to thing, you know, in my lifetime, I've seen TV and, and radio, certainly but but it's more apparent from me on TV. The authenticity go from not very authentic at all, think of think of, of the network news broadcasts in in the 70s and 80s. You know, very stilted six minutes at a time, the guys looked exactly the same. You know, you squint your eyes, you couldn't tell the difference between Tom Brokaw, Peter Jennings and Dan Rather, everything was exactly perfectly scripted nothing, there was no surprise thing cable came along. And we were the wild guys, right? It was like, well, people are authentic on cable, you got to chat for a whole hour. And it's this and that. And sometimes different things happen. You have guests that you don't know exactly what they're going to say. And, and for a number of years, cable TV was kind of on the cutting edge of authenticity. But I'll never forget watching. I was watching a segment of a Brett bear who I love Brett bear. But you know, he had the jacket on. And he was doing a little bit of that again, not like the old guys and my son who was like 15 at the time, he said, you know, we laugh at guys like that. Right? And and it was like, he was like, look at his hair look No, perfect. He's sitting look at how articulate and, and perfect every single thing is scripted. And he's reading off of a teleprompter. And it was kind of like, ah, and then now we're in that new generation where where you can have no, you know, I don't know where it goes from here. I'm almost afraid. But it's it's, it's, it's it's interesting that we keep moving towards more authenticity in the medium.

Christian Toto: 1:08:25

Yeah, it's fascinating. And that, that is a good trend. And it's the sea of bad trends. I guess you could say,

Ken LaCorte: 1:08:31

Is that happening in the movie world at all? Or? Not? Really?

Christian Toto: 1:08:35

I don't think so. I think it's very cookie cutter. I think there's a fear based storytelling mode. I think, you know, if you want to be outrageous, like the 1970s renowned for these sort of avant garde, sort of directorial driven stories, we're not there yet. It's more it's more, you know, pleased this quadrant kind of storytelling. So I think some of the platforms and streaming arenas are doing that, but you know, maybe indie films to a certain degree,

Ken LaCorte: 1:09:04

but it's, it's because because the cost of getting into that should be dropping radically. I mean, you know, you can film a pretty great movie with cameras that you and I could go buy with a credit card. And with lights that are that are, you know, that are a 10th of the costs. And you know, you still have acting and all of those things, but when you consider how much it used to be just for them to make prints to send for a nationwide nationwide movie. I mean, that was a big a big chunk of it. Now, there's no distribution cost.

Christian Toto: 1:09:34

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. The Bond movies is kind of one example that they cost a zillion dollars. And now they have to have product placements. And this and that. I kind of think if a Bond movie hired maybe three or four indie filmmakers and say, Can you help us cut costs dramatically? I bet you they'd slice that budget in half, but I think they're almost it's almost like the perpetual motion like we've got to spend$300 million on a Bond movie. You can't go less than that. We We have to make it look like this. And we have to do the same things. I, I think Hollywood in a way is very conservative that way.

Ken LaCorte: 1:10:05

I remember a number of years Fox Studios, they they had that spin off where they did cheaper movies. Fox Searchlight was one of it's still, you know, I mean, there were still multimillion dollar things. But they said, Look, we're not paying a director more than$750,000. We're not paying this and that, and I forget the name, but they they did some pretty outstanding movies. And you would watch those from, you know, from from an outsider's point of view. And you never said, Oh, wow, that looked like they were crimping crimping corners on. But

Christian Toto: 1:10:39

I just watched the the new movie, what is a woman, it's a daily wire documentary on trans issues. And I know the filmmaker a tiny bit, I've met him a couple of times. And he's the kind of guy who can make up who can take a million or two, and make a documentary that looks like it could stand up to any other documentary. Like it's just very slick, the productions are strong. I just think some storytellers know how to do that in a way that you don't need that huge budget. So I and again, the costs, you know, you can make a, you can make a YouTube movie, that looks pretty darn good. You can now shoot movies on your iPhone. So all these technological barriers are falling, and it makes it much more accessible to everyone. It also makes it much more competitive to get to get eyeballs

Ken LaCorte: 1:11:27

on it. Well, that's the thing. Now there you're not competing against. I mean, that was that was the other thing with with either news, it was like, Well, there's only three channels. So it's like, do you have to be wonderful? Or do you just have to be better than those other two guys. And the same with movies. I mean, when two movies a week would come out, you know, and people wanted to go to a movie because what else was there to do and Pasadena it at eight o'clock on a Friday night.

Christian Toto: 1:11:48

I watch a lot of YouTube because my kids are watching a lot of YouTube and I noticed certain trends and things and the cadence of the narration is very specific. It's always like, you know, smash that like button. If you do this, and this, if you subscribe and ring that bell, you get x or I'll give you it's like lies. It's like this direction. It's just so interesting, because all these YouTube channels are desperate for attention and desperate for subscribers and desperate, they cut through the noise because they know there's a zillion other channels vying for their attention,

Ken LaCorte: 1:12:21

and they're worried that you're going to leave at that second. One of the most popular guys is a young guy, Mr. Beast, do you ever watch any of his stuff? So?

Christian Toto: 1:12:30

Yeah, yeah, he'd probably do with Joe Rogan.

Ken LaCorte: 1:12:34

Yes, he did. Yes, he did. And, and, kid, he's wonderful at what he does. And you know, he pops up things and they'll get 30 million views. I mean, he's just, he's, he's a huge, huge, and I and I would listen to him talking about it. And he would say, he would go through and he would just you we talked about pacing, he would his his mantra was, people are looking for an excuse to click off and go to something else. So he would cut it down, down, down, make sure that if there was a headline on the thumbnail, when you clicked on that, you knew immediately that you were gonna get that payoff, that it wasn't going into something else or, and the speed at which he pops those things is incredible. But it's also pretty fun to watch. And I you know, you don't want that in every way that you tell a story. But in his storytelling, the the amount of cuts are, are amazing. I mean, I mean, you know, they would almost, you know, they would almost give people flickers, where they were, they're going out of control at a certain point, but it's very, very good. And he's a great kid. Yeah. And, you

Christian Toto: 1:13:37

know, I heard the beginning of the interview, and he basically described how, how he became who he is now. And it was a lot of hard work. And it was a lot of studying and it was a lot of commiserating with his fellow YouTubers, he didn't just pop up and become such as success. And actually one of my kids maybe a little bit older to hear the interview. Because he was really, he failed, and he failed. And he failed. And he worked hard, and he worked hard, and he studied his butt off. And that's why he's Mr. Beast, not because he stumbled into something.

Ken LaCorte: 1:14:10

And, and it's fun, because you can watch, you can watch his entire progression when he was a 14 year old kid, you know, counting to 10 million would be one of his things. But he talked about how, you know, because some guys on YouTube are just massively popular from the get go. I mean, I've seen it happen I have friends who they just their very first video that they popped found an audience hidden niche and, and they probably have less to teach than, than that kid. But he you know, he just, ya know, it's if anybody wants to be successful on it, even if they don't want to do that style of thing to be successful on YouTube. He's one of the best guys to watch. And interestingly, it was all about you know, it's so many people get into this and it's the algorithm and this and that. And his basic point was if you make a thumbnail that's interesting enough for people to click and and go through 10 of them. And you know, it has to be like, I have to click on that. And then you make a video. That's enough where it's so interesting that they don't turn our way through through the most and you keep it. That's all you need.

Christian Toto: 1:15:12

I kind of did a deal with the devil on my website, Hollywood in Toto, where some of my headlines are a little click Beatty or a little, they're not hardcore. They're not embarrassing, but I realize you really do have to do that, to get attention. And what I kind of tell myself is and I, this is kind of my mantra is like, the story will back it up. And the story will be interesting. And the story will have some meat on its bones. And if I have to get a little cheesy in the headline, I can live with that as an entrepreneur.

Ken LaCorte: 1:15:42

It's good clickbait if when they click on it, they're not disappointed. Yeah, you gave what you promised. And you can do a little bit of puffery in that it's bad clickbait When, when, you know, when you promised a world wardrobe malfunction. And all it is is you talk and nobody wants to see that. Nobody. But But know that that that it kind of reminded me we talked about Steve Martin earlier, there was a book that actually called so good, they can't ignore you. And it was all based on one line that Steve Martin told on a on a Charlie Rose interview. And Charlie Rose, Steve Martin wrote, had written a book about how to become, you know, it was about his life and comedy. And a lot of it was also how you know how one becomes successful in that. And he said, you know, people always ask him that he said, they're always disappointed at my advice, because it's not what they want to hear. They want to hear the trick to getting an agent. Yeah. Or to do this. What he said is, work on your craft and on your product. So much become so good. They can't ignore you. Yeah. And it was an interesting, it was interesting to hear a guy say that. And then to basically say, and nobody takes that advice. They're looking, they're looking for that easy way out.

Christian Toto: 1:16:55

Well, there's there are overnight sensations. There are people who do find the easy way out. But they are the exception is vast numbers. So you know, that's it.

Ken LaCorte: 1:17:06

So what are the new things you're working on? What's what is what's coming down the pike for you?

Christian Toto: 1:17:10

Well, I just joined out kicks, I'm kind of excited about that. I think they're an interesting platform. And they have I like their view of sports of culture. And they seem to be growing. So I'm excited to kind of be part of that team. And I recently kind of ended my podcast relationship with just a news, I'll be relaunching my show. Probably a couple of weeks, I've had a lot of home renovation and a lot of sort of life turmoil. So I can't jump in immediately. But I'm kind of looking forward to starting it up again. I really like being a podcaster. I love the interviews. I love the conversations. I think it's important. I think it's really hard to get an audience, everyone's got a podcast, so it makes it even harder. So I'll be kind of building that set that podcast back up again. And I've been talking to a lot of industry professionals to get advice on what I was doing right what I was doing wrong. So I'm kind of excited to kind of jump back in and be a be a leaner, meaner. podcaster

Ken LaCorte: 1:17:57

are you doing just audio you doing video too? Or?

Christian Toto: 1:18:00

Yeah, just audio, you know, I'm with my home renovation, I will have a studio of sorts. So I think that may change in the future. I'm spread so thin the thought of embracing YouTube and video makes me I want to I want to throw up, because it just sounds so hard and so much more work. And I'm already I'm already strapped. It is

Ken LaCorte: 1:18:20

harder work to get there. But you know, the tricky part about about an audio podcast is there's just not a great discoverability mechanism. Yeah, there's not a I mean, you know, they do have some related things. But it's not the same as when you I mean, how often have you gone and you know, usually you'll hear somebody, oh, I want to go to his podcast, and you'll go in and you're searching to find it. And that's linear growth. I mean, it's it's slow linear growth, as opposed to being able to hit a double, triple or homerun on a video podcast. I mean, that's kind of

Christian Toto: 1:18:51

I think, as my business grows, that I might be able to kind of farm out some of the work I do. And that may kind of give me some more free time to get into that space. So that's, we'll see, I, as my wife will tell you, my, my first few years as an entrepreneur were less than successful. So I feel like maybe I'm hitting my stride more. So we'll see.

Ken LaCorte: 1:19:12

Yeah, it is not as, as glamorous is, it's a tougher road to hoe to house and then as the understatement of the year and sometimes sometimes when you have more, how do I say when you've had success and in different fields, and then you try to make a shift and you come into it sometimes with the expectation of success because I've always been successful up because I've done a shift to this recently. And you're like I've always been a success up to this point in my life. Well, now it starts from zero again and sometimes almost having too many of having too many resources and too many certain things actually kind of hurts you because because you can you can head RSA you could slide by on slide by on on a product that isn't as sharp as it could. Yeah, that's a great point. One of the things that that that that kid because again, he's wonderful and it's and it's good advice for me and maybe for you is, you need to find some friends who are really, really honest. Because the the prime is you send it out to everybody and everybody says, Oh, you were great. Oh, Christian, and you're handsome. And you're and you're, and you need to have kind of that guy who when he says that thing, you know, it's yeah, you know, he's right. But he didn't want to hear it. It was like, well, you studied on this or, and having some tough critics like that is, I think, I think one of the smartest things that you can do when you're trying to build that up, especially from scratch, because you know, your wife's gonna like everything, presumably, if she's if she's kind of like my partner, she's, she loves everything that I that I do. So I'm like, come on, what's the worst thing about that?

Christian Toto: 1:20:48

Well, you need that you need that, too. You need the unconditional support,

Ken LaCorte: 1:20:52

you need the support. You know what, you're 100%, right? Because you just had the other as a solopreneur. Yeah, whatever that word is, as, as, as, as a one man band, it's the psychological thing is sometimes the tougher to overcome, which is why in Silicon Valley, most most people who invest into into firms and VCs, they'll almost never invest in a in a single person startup, it's always two to three people, because they know that psychological that you need once you've had you to pull something down because you told the truth that they didn't like it that week or something like that. I've noticed that.

Christian Toto: 1:21:30

Years ago, I was kind of late stages of art school, and I was talking to one of my professors. And he said something that kind of basically killed my career, but I think it was the best thing for me. He said, You're talented but stiff. And I think there was a stiffness to my work, like a lack of organic, a lack of flexibility, a lack of sort of flow, right. And he was right. When I became a writer,

Ken LaCorte: 1:21:54

well, I find that alcohol helps with that. A little too stiff. Actually, I find that with writing sometimes I'm on I'm on a no alcohol month, so I can't do it now. But because, you know, I tried to do writing but it takes me so long to do it. Because for most of my career, I was an editor. And I'm a good editor. But you've got that editor voice when you're writing. And when the editor voices, that's the wrong word there. Well, you said most you met many or you know, and at a certain point, you know, I find myself in 20 minutes later and I've got four partial sentences are crap.

Christian Toto: 1:22:29

You know, I have never written high I don't really get high, but I've never I drink once in a while I've never written drunk like I've never drink, drank and then wrote something never never never, never even thought of it. And so you just mentioned that

Ken LaCorte: 1:22:41

so I so I will I do both of those things. I cannot write I can't read really being high. I can be mellow I can be I can. I can actually have creative thoughts. I mean, I mean, marijuana is actually it just fires off different synapses and sometimes you know, things that I launched at Fox News that we're like creative it was like dad that was on a on a me sitting down after a doobie session but but I can write with with a Jack Daniels or two because then all you have to have to edit sober that's the tro Yes, you can write drunk but you have to or or a little buzz but edits over and for me, you know I'm working my way against the you know, try not to do that just just because of the calories. But it actually worked pretty well because because again, I would do I don't know how you write but I would be that so stuttering this and you know certain point you're like, that didn't help anybody. So well. Hey, dude, look, I appreciate you giving me time. This is I'm having a blast doing this. I hope some people will watch it and like it. We got a little bit of an audience and it's growing a little bit at a time. But you know, I'm at a point right now where I thought if I do nothing but have one or two conversations a week with the coolest people I can have that I could find. That's not a bad way to live. And we just settled for me this week. So wow, no, no, not at all. No, I saw your stuff. I knew you're gonna be interesting. So I'm glad I did.